Freedom to Stay: What role can essential services play?

00:00:25 Mary McCaughey: Hello and welcome to this episode of Eurofound Talks. Today we're going to talk a little bit differently. We have had a lot of conversation recently about the European agenda, about the Irish presidency, about what are the core areas of priority for the EU over the coming period. Some of this focuses on competitiveness, some of it focuses on anti-poverty, on areas of disability for example, that we have looked at over the years and of course issues like housing.

00:01:08 Mary McCaughey: But we've also been looking at the overarching elements which feed into the idea of the single market. What is the single market? How can we remain competitive into the future and in most recent years, over the last period, European policymakers have become increasingly concerned with areas like territorial disparities. Where are regions falling behind? Where are they catching up? Who is moving forward? Demographic change is also having an impact on both regions and European member states at large. Labour shortages have come up as an ongoing issue and of course the unequal access to essential services.

00:01:54 Mary McCaughey: It's against this backdrop that we look at the concept of what we call today freedom to stay, and that is going to be the priority area of our discussion today for this Eurofound Talks episode. It's a concept that was coined initially by Enrico Letta, who was the author of the letter report Much More than a Market, which looked at the single market and what could be improved into the future to make us even more competitive and productive as a European Union. And it really has emerged as a very important contribution to the European policy debate.

00:02:33 Mary McCaughey: Essentially we're looking at a concept which provides a counterweight to one of the freedoms. So the free movement of people, for example, this is a counterweight to that. The previous sort of approach to the single market traditionally championed the freedom to move. So brain drain as a result of that, from rural or lagging regions to major hubs. The freedom to stay looks more at how European citizens can have a viable choice to stay, to remain and grow and build their futures in an area that they call their home.

00:03:08 Mary McCaughey: The concept, I suppose, looks also at how this should not be a requirement. That freedom to move across the European Union is of course a good thing, but it should not be a requirement. We should be in a position to stay where we wish as a free personal choice, rather than a forced strategy, which is either driven by economic needs or indeed by a lack of the kind of opportunities that we're going to look at today.

00:03:36 Mary McCaughey: And I am delighted that we are joined by Valeria Ronzitti, who is the Secretary General of SGI Europe. SGI Europe has been representing employers and providers of services of general interest at EU level since 1961. So it's a long time in operation. And today we're going to discuss with her the role of this and the future of the Freedom to Stay agenda. So thank you very much, Valeria, for joining us.

00:04:05 Valeria Ronzitti: Thank you very much, Mary, and thank you to you, Eurofound, for this opportunity. Eurofound is one of our closest agencies in cooperation because indeed SGI Europe is representing since 1961 in Brussels services of general interest providers, but since '89 I would say is representing social partners in that field. So we are at the very origin of the construction of the European social dialogue. And that is why Eurofound is so important to us, so double pleasure.

00:04:38 Mary McCaughey: Well, that's a very good start, Valeria. Thank you for that. I mean, and that's really where I want us to start is looking at SGI Europe. I've explained a little bit, you've given an insight into what you do, but perhaps just to contextualise it within the current debate that we talk about freedom to stay. Why are you interested in this? What is the role of SGI and freedom to stay?

00:05:01 Valeria Ronzitti: So as I said, our members represent general interest and if we go beyond, what does that mean exactly? This is a bubble wording, is what we find in the Treaty, but in many countries it doesn't speak to people, so it is essential services, public services. Public doesn't mean that they are in public ownership as a must, is the mission that defines them to serve the public. And it can be water, transport, electricity, hospital, healthcare, housing. So fundamental areas.

00:05:38 Valeria Ronzitti: And why are our members so interested in the freedom to stay is because the freedom to stay is really reconnecting the single market with territories. It says the kind of single market we want at European level, a single market that does decrease and not increase territorial disparities. Since our members are mainly serving local realities, they can have a national infrastructure, but they serve people and businesses at a very local level.

00:06:14 Valeria Ronzitti: The freedom to stay is for us very important because it's finally a very good slogan, if you want, a concept that catches in a very communication-friendly way the need for these services to be spread in all European regions, not to have different territories, those who are well equipped and served and those who are not. So freedom to stay is really at the core of the mission of our members and that is why we used the letter report as a driving force for something that we were looking for since many, many years. So the recognition that the single market needs services of general interest and that that can be at the core of it.

00:07:12 Mary McCaughey: Okay, that's a good starting point for the discussion because clearly in 2027 we'll see 10 years of the European Pillar of Social Rights. And I know that principle 20 is on access to the kind of essential services that you talk about. From the perspective of SGI and you've been watching this over many, many years, how would you assess the kind of progress there has been within the context of the Pillar of Social Rights? I mean, have we seen the gaps closing or are they widening or have there been major achievements in this area? So I want to give both a positive and a not less positive, but what can we improve vibe sort of thing.

00:08:02 Valeria Ronzitti: So the positive is that the pillar finally put the concept on the table. Is a recognition, is a pillar. It also triggered other achievements, other, so to say, initiatives by the European Commission in sectors that were not so highlighted before. There is the Commission report on access to essential services, that is another very good hook for our membership and there is also something very recent—I will speak about it longer afterwards—but the work that Eurofound did on the Freedom to Stay index is to me another piece of this puzzle. So there is the benefit of a closer recognition, awareness about the fact that these services need to be treated and taken care of in a very holistic way, in a way that creates something and not try to fix a problem.

00:09:08 Valeria Ronzitti: Okay, so this is the positive thing. Where we see need for improvement is the fact that still the pillar lacks what we call an integrated approach. Principle 20 is very important. But what you have in principle 20 with access to essential services is a selection of these services that for us is quite artificial. You have water there, you have digital and other energy and other services. But then you have another principle: housing, healthcare, education. So why I feel they've been separated? For us, the principles from 16 to 20 belong together, okay, and the work we are doing also through the freedom to stay is to say to the Commission, look, use the 10th anniversary to finally remember together, to bring them together because of their interdependencies and their links. Okay?

00:10:15 Valeria Ronzitti: This sectoral approach makes it that at the end of the day there is not a coherence in the way they are treated and we want this coherence.

00:10:24 Mary McCaughey: And can you give me an example of that? Are you talking about the housing initiatives that are taking place separate from, for example, Principle 20? Is that?

00:10:35 Valeria Ronzitti: Yeah. Sometimes I call it that you create a war between the poor. Why a person should choose between having a house and having access to hospital? How can he or she choose to have access to education and access to public transport that will bring him here to work? So it's, you know, on the ground people and even companies that depend on those people see the services together.

00:11:08 Mary McCaughey: And of course they're interlinked, yeah. And that also has an impact on the labour shortages—you have a house, but if you don't have transport to get you from that house to your job, it's not going to function. I understand. Um, in terms of that, is that the background to the Coalition for the Freedom to Stay that you launched earlier this year? I mean, what motivated that initiative?

00:11:34 Valeria Ronzitti: The integrated approach is behind this idea, okay, which goes beyond our services. It's really an ecosystem. The Coalition is a way to say we will never get there alone, and when I say alone, I speak, of course, about all kind of services of general interest. That is why at the core of the Coalition and the founding members is SGI Europe, but also all the central organisation with whom we cooperate in what we call the SGI network: railways, postal services, healthcare, local and regional government, education and public trials, and they're all part of the coalition. They are at the origin of it.

00:12:17 Mary McCaughey: And you're also including those that are in principles 16, 17 and 18, yes?

00:12:20 Valeria Ronzitti: Housing Europe joined us, Eurocities joined us, but we go beyond, we are trying to reach out to the private, the business sector and a specific role for us should be played by SMEs. Small commerce in a territory—we depend from each other. An entrepreneur that is in the middle of choosing whether he can establish or keep a business in a territory will depend from access to infrastructure, and access to infrastructure alone will not be enough if there is not the economic power in that territory. So that's our message with the Coalition: let's do it together, let's also try to think out-of-the-box. This is a very important message for the Brussels bubble, where there is even from the organisation point of view the tendency to really only think about its own political priority. But this co-creation is something that we would like also to increase with the Coalition.

00:13:37 Mary McCaughey: Okay, so the co-creation, the coherence, the merging together—are there other key objectives of the coalition?

00:13:46 Valeria Ronzitti: The key objective is that the more all these actors realise that they need to act together, we will make the completion of the single market as all European as we want to see. It is something that lives well beyond the right to stay strategy that will be published by the European Commission, so it's also a longer-term vision methodological angle that we want to achieve in order to increase the message to the European institution that different actors need to come together and that the sectoralization of policies that doesn't help the final aim.

00:14:30 Mary McCaughey: So specifically, if we were to fast forward and we were to look at, you know, a revised post-2027 approach to this, what would you like to see? What would be your indicators of success in this coalition?

00:14:46 Valeria Ronzitti: I think it's important that each partner of the coalition finds his habit in it. For us in SGI Europe, we clearly have a political final goal which is to have an action plan on services of general interest that brings this coherent approach. But for SMEs for instance, should they join—I'm sure they can link it to their small things first agenda. So it's not that we will find something that is equal for everyone, but there is an equal common denominator about the fact that the single market shouldn't leave anyone behind.

00:15:24 Mary McCaughey: Sure. And why do you think—I mean, apart from some of the reasons that you've outlined there, in terms of the needs of these different players and actors—why do you think the concept itself is gaining such traction across Europe?

00:15:41 Valeria Ronzitti: I think it's getting traction because it's a concept that speaks to people. And this is, I would say, the intuition that Letta had. We have been saying freedom to stay in our organisation since many, many years, but we didn't say it like this. So he found the right way to reach people. It speaks to people that often see Europe as something, you know, far away, not for them. And having things, these concepts saying, look, the single market has the four freedoms—freedom of movement is clear. But if you choose to stay where you are, it's fine. It's probably fine. Europe is also for you. And the same for businesses—think that the problem we have with too many companies going and relocate because they don't find anymore in Europe the condition to thrive. So it's something that spoke both to people and companies for different reasons, but it is also a way to bring them together.

00:16:52 Mary McCaughey: And as you say, it links back to the absolute fundamental of the treaty, you know, the founding treaty, which is talking about upward convergence of living conditions, but for all, not just for those who are benefiting from the free movements as they currently stand. And so it speaks to the individual in a way that perhaps other concepts haven't done to date.

00:17:16 Valeria Ronzitti: And I find this super important in the current geopolitical context. You know, it is important that this concept make it feel to everyone that Europe is there for you.

00:17:33 Mary McCaughey: Do you think you're referring there to the political developments across different Member States about citizens feeling excluded and isolated in different areas?

00:17:41 Valeria Ronzitti: There is really also a very strong democratic angle. So to maintain some level of cohesion, yeah, some level of progress in this area is absolutely necessary.

00:17:51 Mary McCaughey: I mean, when you talk about freedom to stay and this being a really good concept that was coined by Enrico Letta and the Commission increasingly refers to a right to stay, is there a difference between these two for you? And why would one be superior to the other?

00:18:08 Valeria Ronzitti: We in SGI and all of our partners want to stick to freedom also, because I think that communication-wise it is really the best way to say, you know, it is complementary to another freedom: the freedom to stay and then there is the fifth freedom. So to us the word freedom is the word that works better. There is also an element that very much relates to our nature as employers. Some of our members—and very frank with you—were concerned when we started with this that we were creating a sort of opposing concept to mobility, that in some territories is absolutely essential. We have territories where there is really a long way, miles, kilometres between one urban centre and the other, and there especially SGI providers need to have the ability, flexibility to increase mobility of their workers where they are most needed. So the freedom element is also important for us as employers.

00:19:27 Valeria Ronzitti: However, I must say that I'm pretty reassured by the fact that if you look at the very content of the initiatives that are in the pipeline—and we can have a bit of the feeling of it from the call for evidence on the right to stay strategy—I think that the Commission is going in the same direction. So we were concerned at the very start that this differentiation in wording would have led to a differentiation of approach, but to be honest, until now we didn't see this. And what is good is that the European Commission for the moment is very much trying to listen to the actors from the ground. Just as an example, next Tuesday I will be at an implementation dialogue organised by Vice-President Fitto on this. We had the opportunity to have local dialogues also with the Committee of the Regions. So there is, I think, enough bottom-up approach for the moment to make sure that this change in wording will not translate into a change in approach.

00:20:47 Mary McCaughey: But do you think—because you referred earlier to the fact that this freedom to stay concept is good also from a communication perspective, that it's clear to people what it means—do you think there's a danger that by having two kind of parallel terminologies at play that there is a problem of us diluting the message?

00:21:07 Valeria Ronzitti: Honestly, I think I would have preferred that we all stick to freedom, but now let's try through the content, hmm, to make it converge. Okay, okay.

00:21:18 Mary McCaughey: And when you're talking about the freedom to stay as a concept, I know that in your recent work, you talk about it not only as a social objective. You've talked about that earlier, but also how it can link into the competitiveness agenda. Can you talk to me a little bit more about that? Because clearly that's the overarching priority that we have to play at the moment, trying to make the European Union an important, competitive force in the world. How do you see territorial cohesion services feeding into this competitiveness priority?

00:21:58 Valeria Ronzitti: It is a very crucial point indeed. Without the link with competitiveness, we wouldn't be in the European agenda at the moment. So for us it's very important to recall this link. Relating again to the example I was making earlier, the fact that a business cannot establish in a territory if it doesn't have the infrastructure necessary to prosper. We provide this infrastructure; we are the enablers of competitiveness. This is the easiest way to interpret, I think, something that everyone sees: any company needs energy provision, digital access, but also it needs housing, healthcare, school for their employees.

00:22:51 Valeria Ronzitti: So this is the easy part. What is less easy to see at first glance—and this is the second pillar of our strategy—is that our services themselves are actors of competitiveness. They are not only the enablers of others, so there is the combination of the two. Many of our members need to operate in the market, so they are also themselves primary actors of competitiveness.

00:23:22 Valeria Ronzitti: And all this is, I think, again embedded by the fact that Letta presented—if you recall a matrix to the business summit that then was the basis of the One Europe, One Market agenda—and there he put freedom to stay as one of the key enablers of the single market. Unfortunately, for the moment, this is the only point of the matrix that has not been picked up as such by the European Commission. So this is our fight, that it has to be recognized.

00:24:03 Valeria Ronzitti: Is the Commission working on a strategy? Yes, of course, but not necessarily linked to the single market as such. The Right to Stay Strategy was conceived long before the idea, the mandate to have a Right to Stay Strategy was conceived before the One Europe, One Market agenda was set up. And it has for the moment—as far as we know, of course, the strategy has not been published yet—a very strong, maybe a too strong territorial angle. For us it's super important, but it's important that the territorial angle is not the only angle. The single market competitiveness angle needs to enter into the equation and this relates also to the importance of making this coalition live beyond the publication of the Right to Stay.

00:25:02 Mary McCaughey: So this is also another one of the objectives that you have in this coalition: to ensure that that competitiveness dimension of the freedom to stay is not ignored and that it isn't pushed into just a clearly social objective. Okay, in terms of what you're talking about, the services in these regions, what would you see as the most critical ones? You referred to a wide range of them and I know that they're all interconnected. But would you say that there are particular regional or other challenges where these services are absolutely pivotal to being able to deliver on this freedom to stay?

00:25:43 Valeria Ronzitti: The service that is most important is the service that is lacking in a specific territory, which is different in different territories, okay? And that's where my real praise to the work of the foundation with the Freedom to Stay index comes in, because you really were able to demonstrate that there is not one solution. And this is also the way to demonstrate that freedom to stay cannot be a central policy because each territory can have a different answer, sure, depending on the service that is lacking.

00:26:23 Valeria Ronzitti: So this is for us a very important tool that we are already using in our work and that we will use even more because it's really going to support our point that you cannot have a piecemeal approach. So it has to be a customised approach because one size does not fit all.

00:26:48 Valeria Ronzitti: Recently I was in a local dialogue together with the Committee of the Regions in Isola d'Elba, an island, and there number one was connection to the continent—either by ferry boat or by plane all over the year. Without this connection, nothing happens. In other territories—and so this is the rural, remote area example—in other territories they might have an opposite issue. Because another thing important to say is that the freedom to stay is not only for rural areas, it speaks also to cities. So there are cities who have the opposite problem than rural areas: there is congestion, the housing offer is not able to keep the pace. So really it's the example that each territory has a different answer.

00:27:39 Mary McCaughey: And when you talk about the demographic challenges at play, where would you see them being most problematic? Are there particular demographic challenges that you see when you're looking at freedom to stay?

00:27:52 Valeria Ronzitti: So again, the answer is different depending on where you are pointing the radar. In rural areas, brain drain and depopulation is clearly number one preoccupation, whereas you have in cities the opposite problem: the fact that there is too much concentration, so there is no services—being housing, childcare, affordable services—for too many people that are congesting the territory.

00:28:25 Mary McCaughey: So it shows increasingly as you talk, the interdependency of all of these policy areas, which without speaking to one another will not be able to have the kind of impact that you are looking for. Eurofound, I mean as you know, as you've referenced it earlier, we are one of the EU's tripartite agencies. You represent the employer organisations here when we talk about SGI. Of course, we work also with the trade unions, the worker representatives, and of course also with governments. But from your perspective, you're part of that social partner approach. How important do you think it is in this context, in the context of achieving a freedom to stay movement, if you like?

00:29:10 Valeria Ronzitti: Social dialogue is for us the number one governance tool of any phenomenon. Of course, everyone thinks at the labour market perspective, but also we can think in our case at the provision of services. If we have to restructure, review how a service is provided in order to face demographic ageing or depopulation, etc., it is always a key asset if we can do it anticipating this change together with the workforce we manage, so it's a win-win situation.

00:29:55 Mary McCaughey: And has there already been significant dialogue around this between you and the worker representatives?

00:30:00 Valeria Ronzitti: Not yet specifically on the freedom to stay concept. We are in talk with ETUC about this issue, but it is something that we want to develop further, not only at European level, but specifically also with our respective members at the local level.

00:30:19 Mary McCaughey: And could you expect them to join the coalition?

00:30:23 Valeria Ronzitti: We are waiting for them. Let's see, let's hope, because I think that trade unions are an equally important part of this equation.

00:30:36 Mary McCaughey: I think we could probably go through this in greater detail and go down very many different avenues, all of which would be very interesting for us in terms of exploring further this issue. But I would like to try and wrap up here with the sort of three general ideas that you would have if you were to be able to address the pen holders in the Commission strategy, for example, or indeed policymakers who can clearly make a difference in this area. If you were able to have 5 minutes in an elevator with them, what would be the three main things that you would put on the table for them?

00:31:17 Valeria Ronzitti: I will say that the keyword I will tell them is coherence. And this coherence needs to be achieved through three main strands: investment, people, and policy.

00:31:29 Valeria Ronzitti: Investment, because this is where I think all of our members will find themselves. There is a huge investment gap in services of general interest. For too long a time, investing in an SGI has been seen as a cost and not as an investment, and this led us where we are in many territories where there is a real lack of infrastructure that—and this is very important—not only has to be built, but has to be maintained over time.

00:32:08 Valeria Ronzitti: People is very much linked also to investment. When I speak about people, it is the workers that we need to hire to run our services, so they need to focus on skills—reskilling, upskilling, retention—but also to hire a big new cohort of young people. There is a problem of attractiveness of working in our services, so people are also the key.

00:32:41 Valeria Ronzitti: And then the legislative coherence. Of course, we can put all these elements—people and investment—together, but then if the legislation, if the European legislation doesn't set up a framework that facilitates the life of our members, that makes it possible to expand and run the infrastructure, then it's very difficult to operate.

00:35:16 Mary McCaughey: In terms of the next steps, what are they for you within the coalition between now and when the Commission plans to publish its strategy? Is it early next year, in 2027 I think?

00:35:26 Valeria Ronzitti: Yeah, we are still in the phase of trying to make the coalition grow. We want to bring as many actors as possible around the table. There are a couple, for my taste, missing—two very important ones, and this is also an appeal: SMEs and trade unions. However, we gave ourselves a kind of deadline because, you know, the coalition is really growing and there are a lot of actors that want to get in motion.

00:36:00 Valeria Ronzitti: So until December, we are in this growing phase, and then with them we will prepare the next step, meaning that we want to take it for granted—and I think really all of the actors that joined already feel that the publication of the Right to Stay Strategy is not the end of the story. So the aim is to prepare together this strong message to convey ahead of the publication, but then already prepare the next step for making it a wider single market project.

00:37:41 Mary McCaughey: Okay. Well, thank you very much, Valeria, for your contribution to this Eurofound Talks episode on freedom to stay. It has been really fascinating. I think what I'm more aware of now than I was before is the interconnections and interdependence of all of these different areas that you have referenced. I mean, not least the services themselves, but then also the link that that has with rural/urban divides, convergence, labour shortages, competitiveness as you mentioned.

00:38:13 Mary McCaughey: So clearly, Eurofound has a lot of work in these areas, not least also I suppose it touches on migration and mobility, which is another area which we didn't get to talk about today, but also access to healthcare quality services in that way. And here I would probably just like to raise the awareness of our audience on the upcoming results which will come through on our most recent European Quality of Life Survey, which will be available next year, which will also allow us to take a snapshot—well, more than a snapshot—of what is actually happening in these areas and the kind of access issues and quality issues that are in the areas that you've mentioned.

00:39:57 Mary McCaughey: So what I would like to do is to finish by thanking you very much Valeria for joining us today.

00:40:03 Valeria Ronzitti: Thank you. Thank you very much.

00:40:04 Mary McCaughey: And to remind you, our audience, our listeners, that you can find all of the information we have discussed today on our website. You can find it via our topic pages—just search. Also, you can download previous podcasts which we have done on housing, on competitiveness, labour shortages and many of the other issues which we have raised today. You can subscribe to our newsletter and of course, you can follow us, Eurofound, on social media to learn more about all of our latest research on living and working conditions across Europe. So thank you again for listening and until next time when Eurofound talks to you!

00:41:45 Mary McCaughey: Good jobs, quality jobs. We still have so much to do for women's rights. For the parents to go to work, you need good childcare. We will not have a successful recovery if we leave social rights [behind]. Reinventing our way of building and living. Do it right!